Don Gabel demonstrates the 8XA (Bremen, October 2014)

Don Gabel demonstrates the 8XA circuit — Max Miller's conference, Bremen, Ohio, October 2014

DG = Don Gabel MM = Max Miller, who is hosting A, B, C = voices from the floor. Most are never named; where one gives a name it is in the text.

Read off the recording by machine (WhisperX, large-v3 model), with the speakers told apart by machine (pyannote speaker diarisation 3.1), and read through for obvious faults — but not checked word by word against the audio. Time marks in italics are minutes into the recording.

Two cautions. The room is a working bench with a running cell, an oscilloscope and a crowd, and for nineteen stretches the machine's confidence collapses altogether; those are marked where they fall rather than guessed at. And in the crowded question-and-answer after the demonstration the machine several times gives a question to whoever answered it, so a line attributed to DG or MM there may belong to the floor. The only words altered from what the machine wrote down are the proper names — Gabel, Meyer, Holbrook — and the designation 8XA, none of which it had any way to spell.

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MM: (0:07) for those of you who are just joining us, Don Gabel actually sat in the Meyer buggy. The Meyer buggy most likely ran on water, and Don held all the objects in his hand, he could picture them, and now they want to demonstrate one of his devices that does what it does.

DG: (0:37) [51 seconds the recording does not carry: crosstalk and room noise over the demonstration.]

MM: (1:38) [60 seconds the recording does not carry: crosstalk and room noise over the demonstration.]

MM: (2:44) okay everybody this is Don Gabel for some of you that's come late Don Gabel actually was he helped is that right helped sell the buggy yeah David Holbrook uh in the stan meyers estate they eventually sold the buggy and don went in and helped them sell the buggy and while he was there he held almost everything every probably everything everything was over Everything that he can get his hands on he grabbed it up and took pictures of it And we all have to thank Don for getting the pictures and releasing them to the public So Don's going to demonstrate his His 8XA circuit not mine his so If you want to run your mouth the Don you still have to answer to me

DG: (3:40) [19 seconds the recording does not carry: crosstalk and room noise over the demonstration.]

DG: (4:00) closely exact copy of the 8XA circuit that Stan used. It's got the frequency generator of my own design. It's not Stan's, but it's basically all Stan's given us a 50% square wave pulse into the SCR, which will trigger on scope. We'll see it. But basically, it's coming out of the frequency generator. We've got a variable transformer here, which will give us our supply voltage. It goes through a fully full bridge rectifier, which will convert from a full AC to a ripple DC. It will take it from a 60 hertz to 120 hertz. It goes through a simple little optocoupler, which is triggered through by my frequency generator, triggers the SCR, applies power to the cell. And the cell, you can see we have our oscilloscope probes hooked up directly across the cell. Now what this system basically is, this is not a resonant system that Stan designed. This is one of his early versions. The very first version that everyone's familiar with is the multi-tube cell over there. That worked off of the alternator setup. Now, what Stan did with that is he seen the signals that was basically coming out of his modified alternator, and that is what you would consider an electrical mechanical device. Okay, with that system, he went from an electrical mechanical straight to an electrical system. He was using this 8XA circuit to recreate the signals that were being generated by the alternator, applying to the cell. And the whole efforts of this, that you can restrict the amps, the voltage will increase. So it's watts in, watts out. It's the same thing as America's 10 watts in with 10 volts 1 amp. It's the same thing at 100 volts 1 amp. It's watts or watts. You can change that. So his whole purpose was jimmy does show that you could reduce the amps and by reducing the amps you would see an increase in voltage to trade off one or the other if you increase the amps voltage drops you would increase the voltage amps drops so his whole process was to prove that you could restrict the amps in a dead short condition and create high voltage and break water bonds so he went from electrical mechanical to a full electrical system and that's what this does it like say it's not and off on and off so you get that unipolar pulse treatment everybody's been trying to replicate so basically we're going to see this fully rectified 120 hertz that's a fixed frequency it's not changeable we cannot change it because that's what comes from the wall 60 hertz converted to 120. all we're going to do is take this frequency generator which has to be between 0 and 120 hertz if we go over 120 hertz it's just going to match what's coming out of The system is just going to be full pulses. So we got out of this triggers that goes right directly to the cell through the choke cell. Here's the chokes. This is the exact same. You see it's two cores. The stand uses it. Now they're the exact same material. We'll never know. But basically it's got four layers, four windings of double wrapped by filler coils. And so all wired just like stands. The only difference is my diode is smaller, so I can't run as much power as he would with his system. But anyway, it all works the same. Everything's plugged in, ready to go. So essentially what we're going to see here is as I turn it on, you'll actually see the gas start coming out. We'll set it. We'll drop it down to 20 volts per star, and you can see how quickly the gas will start flowing. And you can already see the unit port pulses on screen. Now, if I vary the signal over here, all we're going to do is increase the duty cycle to decrease how many pulses are going to the cell. Turn it way down here. You'll see more pulses and fewer pulses. As we increase the frequency, this little flat line on the bottom is the duty cycle that this thing is turning off. So this is the duty cycle. But these are 120 hertz pulses. And this frequency generator is just turning them off, turning them back on. So right now we're only at 19 hertz. Turn it up. 44 hertz, but you can see how the pulse stream changes. Now we can increase the voltage. You can see the pulses climb and climb and climb. And of course the gas flow just increases exponentially. So that's pretty much the system.

A: (8:42) So you turn up and down the frequency? Just the frequency?

DG: (8:47) The frequency is just the gating. We're just interrupting the 120 Hz that is coming out.

A: (8:52) So does the frequency give you more bubbles?

DG: (8:55) No, it's going to reduce how many pulses are hitting the cell. It's going to turn down the gas output. So if we increase the... together it'll actually produce more gas so it's basically on time off time okay so more frequency more gas yeah yeah because we're getting closer to being almost full on at that point so we get close to 120 Hertz with this frequency it's going to end up matching that it's going to be on full it'll be on 120 120 Hertz full speed uh... reduced gas we can increase or decrease the voltage now let's see we've got twenty volts going in if we look at the scope this is set at uh... one volt per division it's on times ten probes so it's ten twenty there's about twenty five volts right there and we'll put twenty volts in so there is a restriction in the amps so because the volts are a little higher so turn up the frequency turn up the frequency it's uh... it's already getting pretty high I'm at 106 hertz now, but you see it's almost continuously on, barely in the off time.

A: (10:11) But did it raise the voltage?

DG: (10:13) No, the frequency is just, the voltage is only changed by the variac. The variac controls voltage. But the amp restriction part was turned up to 30 volts here, where we are now at 10, 20, 30, almost 40 volts on the scope. So we only put 30 in, but we amperage, which is allowing the voltage to go up higher than the input voltage. So, I can go higher, but this diode, I don't remember what the diode's rated at, but if I try to get really high, I don't know the price of the diode, but you can see she's just putting out the gas. Let's turn it off for a second so it'll stop. I can see the gunk in there. That was right out of a bottle of water today. Bottle of water. Yeah, bottle of water.

A: (11:08) Makes you feel good about the bottle of water, huh?

DG: (11:10) Yeah. Alright, it's pretty much stable. You can see how quickly this gas will come out, how strong it comes out. But it's a pretty simple system. But it's all going to be wired correctly. This frequency generator, variac and all that, you have to tie the ground systems together to get this little circuit powered, which is all the batteries for the optocouple head. They all have to be linked together through the common ground, otherwise nothing will work. But in Stan's system, it's all in the box. Everything's in the box, all done from this main power source. I've just got mine split up into a couple of variables here. That's pretty much all there is to it. It's not resonance, it's just amp restriction.

A: (12:04) There hasn't been very many people to even make bubbles with a 9XA board, or a 9XB board.

DG: (12:10) Well, this is the 8XA.

A: (12:12) The 8XA.

DG: (12:13) The 9XB is, that one is for... I'm talking your board, this board here. I'm going to be rude.

A: (12:23) It's your conference.

DG: (12:24) [26 seconds the recording does not carry: crosstalk and room noise over the demonstration.]

MM: (12:54) Per Ritter wanted to sell the boards cheap as possible. Per Ritter sells the populated boards and unpopulated boards. If you want to do it yourself, obviously unpopulated is cheaper. The main part of this is the 9XB and the SCR board. Per Ritter with StanleyMeyerWebshop.com. Sorry to be rude.

DG: (13:24) and another note with this system it's not you're still in Faraday territory here you're still consuming amps you're still making hydrogen the same old fashioned way it's just he's just restricting amps increasing voltage he's just making more use of wattage it's the same wattage same power but this cell does get hot if you run it hard it will heat up because you're still consuming amps can I interrupt Jamie

MM: (13:51) So you were at the, you had the stuff in your hand, the large cell, plate cell that was roughly 3 inches by 12 inches, that was for the circuit, correct? That's the circuit, yes. Right, so it wasn't the little tube, it was a big plate set that you could adjust the plates.

DG: (14:11) Yeah, you had variable spacing on the plates. Sorry to interrupt. Yeah, the original, there was videos floating out there from the estate sale that shows that system in operation. But he had a knob on the top that would allow them to place the very distance. And I think that was more along the lines for testing gap sizes to see what produced the best amount of gas. And you get to a certain point where, of course, you're going to get more gas, the closure comes together. I think it was more meant to be to see if there was a better point.

DG: (14:46) [55 seconds the recording does not carry: crosstalk and room noise over the demonstration.]

MM: (15:43) These are exactly two size scale and components of what was in the black box.

DG: (15:50) The 8XA box?

MM: (15:51) The 8XA box. The markings are all the same except for the logo. Everything else is the exact same.

DG: (15:59) This stuff here, this is the... This voltage converter here changes it from the AC signal out of the variac, variable transformer, converts it through these couple of these full bridge rectifiers. One of them powers for the SCR to power the cell and the other one is to power the frequency generator. That's what this board is. My frequency generator is a completely different system, but it's still a 50% duty cycle square wave generator. This thing will go all the way over 4 megahertz, but on this setup we only need 120 max. So, but this is to drop the voltage down to power the electronics if I went for the width of 5 or 12 volts. That's basically it. You've got two rectifiers on there, one for the high voltage and one for the low voltage for the electronics.

MM: (16:54) Actually, the one is 5 volts and the one is 12 volts.

DG: (16:58) Yeah, those are your voltage regulators, Frank. Regulations.

MM: (17:02) This is just for the circuit. Just power for this. It's been a while since I got to test stuff. That's all right. A long time. My mistake. That was my mistake.

DG: (17:11) Yeah, I remember it was for the others, 5 and 12 volts. The actual full bridge rectifier was mounted on a big heat sink in the back of the box right along with a great big stud-type diode as well. I don't have that diode here, so if I turn it up more than 80 volts, that diode starts getting warm and it will pop. But yeah, this is the 555 timer here, and these are the deck heat counters. to select through for the different frequency ranges. I mean, this circuit board is the base circuit for all his work. It doesn't matter if it's the 8XA, the variable plate cells. That cell, he uses the exact same circuitry.

MM: (17:53) I believe this is the exact basis for all of Stan's circuits, every one of them.

DG: (18:00) Yeah, I think the circuit would go up 40,000 hertz before you peg out. But every system he uses, even those EPGs over there, uses this exact same frequency generator. Just a 50% duty cycle square wave gainer. Once you go through a decade counter, no matter what the duty cycle going in is, it will come out 50% out the other side. So they're fixed. You never use a variable frequency during the duty cycle. The gating, if you look at the circuitry on the buggy for the resonance cell, the gating circuit was on the GMS, the gas management system control panel, which was mounted in the windshield of the buggy. was a manual adjusted frequency generator. So once he went through the VIC circuits that did the automatic scanning and locks into resonance, he controlled the gating through a manual adjustment knob. It was non-automatic.

MM: (19:01) Was the gating similar to this circuit?

DG: (19:04) It's one of those cards. Yeah. frequency generator, but it was manually, it had a manual adjustment knob on it. So that tells, and from reading in his paperwork, I finally came across the paragraph where he specifies that once you find resonance on those systems and it locks in the resonance, you then fine tune the gating frequency to get their residents is we didn't know what it's like once it's resonating agree to go to the now he's going to turn that only on and off at a frequency like everyone gives you an analogy of pushing a kid on a swing you start pushing a kid on a swing and the time just right and just push them to take a very little energy to keep them going the same thing will happen with the gating control when we tune in the gating you're going to find that sweet spot where that water is expanding and contracting And you're going to get it into a mechanical resonance as well. And then you would fine tune. Once that was set, you never touched it. That part didn't change. It was the mechanical resonance between the tubes that takes place with the gate. So, anybody have any questions? come on you have a whole crowd here you have to adjust it by hand you can't like use a phase lock loop well the phase lock loop works for the scanning process for finding the LC resins of the system the whole resin system the other part was more of a visual mechanical reference I don't know if there's a way that you could tune that in and see the difference or measure the difference So it was possibly because it was a manual setting, and all those knobs on the front of those cards had locks on them. When you jot down freaks, you lock the caller in the state, and it won't touch it again. But that was the only part on that system that was mechanical. It was manually adjusted. Everything else was automatic. You could turn off the automatic mode and go into manual mode in tune. And I did play with those on the bench, and those systems do work. They did lock in. They did. It did find the resonance and lock, and you could find it manually too, just as easy.

B: (21:15) Where did the gas management system tie into the big circuit?

DG: (21:19) Was that through the coil pack on that serial port? It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure that's where it goes into the serial port. The GMS controls accepted the signals from the gas pedal and the laser distributor assembly. All the feedback systems went into the GMS, the gas management system. box you could also adjust, it also adjusted the analog voltage, it had an analog voltage generator that would, based on the feedback from the motor, it would increase or decrease the applied power going to the cell to always maintain just enough gas, not too much or not enough. So it was a self-regulated system when it was all tuned in. So that's all you had to do is you had to run it and you would adjust, do the basic Yes, it would cut the voltage back to the coils, reduce the voltage output, and control the flow of the gas at that point. So it was all self-regulating and much running.

MM: (22:21) So later on, maybe tomorrow, we'll go over my theories on some of the how it should pulse for the car. And are you going to be here tomorrow?

DG: (22:32) No, I got other plans.

MM: (22:34) Unfortunately, Don's a busy guy. He needs to not be here tomorrow. But I think everybody in the world should thank Don Gabel at this moment.

DG: (22:52) Yeah, it wasn't ever my intention to keep and sit on this stuff. I just wanted to get it out there. I was just really surprised to find it. It took really no effort to find that buggy. I mean, it took more time. I actually talked to Bruce over here. He's like one of the very first guys I contacted trying to understand. And then he led to a couple other guys. I mean, it took me like three months to find it.

DG: (23:16) [29 seconds the recording does not carry: crosstalk and room noise over the demonstration.]

DG: (23:46) doing some research on Stan, and I was looking for your father, and I says, just trying to find the buggy, just curious, I'd like to see it. And he's like, well, I got it. I was like, what? But it took like two months of talking to him over the phone. At this point, he was already in the process of trying to sell it. He was talking to the Orion Project at that time. So he was, them and a couple other guys were interested. But, um, I ended up spending probably two months talking and helping and explaining the stuff to David. David, he's a bricklayer by trade. He had no clue how this thing works. So I'm kind of telling him how basically what it's supposed to do and how it works and after all my offer to help say I'll get the word out for you I'll spread it through the forums and if you're looking for a buyer so we just withheld his name and everything and everybody would contact me and he required some he had some requirements before he would talk to him so he wanted I said I'll leave out the I'll leave out the chafe for you and I'll just send you the the series of inquiries so once people talked to me I told them what David wanted they gave me the info and I just have I'd send them right off to Dave, and then Dave says, okay, I'll talk to them. And I'd contact them back, give them Dave's name and number, and then they would talk to us. I had nothing to do with that. All I did was arrange meetings. And then every time Dave had somebody that wanted to come down and see the stuff, he'd call me and say, hey, man, can you come down and help me out here and talk to these guys? Because he had nothing. over the months, towards the end there, he's like, well, let's try and take some of that home so we can get it to work. So, I mean, I had almost all of it at my house for a week or two at a time. That's where I got most of the pictures. Then I held those back for a year after the sale of it because I didn't want to step on anyone's toes and I was waiting to see if anything was coming out and nothing's coming out. I was like, well, they've had it a year or so, so I just put it out there.

MM: (25:47) So, the big question is, In your opinion, Stan Maher a fraud or real?

DG: (25:55) Well, I'd say with all the stuff I've been trying to do and not getting any of the work, The way he explained it, layman's turn, I understood it. I'd seen it physically work from what I know. And after seeing everything, the first time I went down to see the buggy, I'm like, okay, what is there that Stan is not talking about? What is he hiding? So when I'm down there looking this buggy over, everything that was on the net at the time, all the pictures, everything that was There was nothing on there extra. Everything that he talked about was there. I could not find anything different. It was exactly as described. And then doing my own experiments that you've seen on YouTube, they do exactly what he says it does. I mean, everything works just like it did. There's still something missing or the way we were poking things up, something that we're just not hitting the right spot somewhere. But as far as I can tell, if he faked it, he went through a hell of a lot of trouble to fake it. These circuits he designed and built do exactly like he said it would. I can't see anything that would say otherwise. Number 64. D-Y-N-O-D-O-N-6-4. Most people should know it.

A: (27:18) I've got... Oh, that was you.

DG: (27:19) That's me.

A: (27:20) Oh, now I know who David is. I got it now.

DG: (27:25) I'm on some websites. I'm just Dino Don. I'm around Dino Don 6-4. I've got other stuff on YouTube, you know, in the experimental aircraft, Jara Copter, building airplanes, flying airplanes, so I've got some of that stuff in there, too.

A: (27:40) Not important. We're talking about standard stuff.

DG: (27:41) We don't care about your holiday. That's more important to me because I've been doing that since I was a kid. That's my whole life, flying.

B: (27:49) Can you talk about anything, say anything about Quad City and what they're at and what

DG: (27:56) I have no idea. They didn't come through me. Somebody else, I think Craig Westbrook might have had something to do with those guys initially, but that didn't help too much.

A: (28:06) I have a subject here for a second. It looks like as the cell is getting more seasoned or running, it looks like the voltage, can you count the voltage on the scope and see if the voltage has gone up?

DG: (28:24) and we're at 25, 26 input. It's pretty much holding the same, I think.

A: (28:30) It looks like it's going up a little bit.

DG: (28:32) The cell's getting warm.

A: (28:35) Well, hold on a minute here. Let's look at this observation.

DG: (28:37) I mean, it might change if you tune in.

A: (28:40) The cell going up in temperature would make it more efficient. It would let more voltage come through. And

DG: (28:55) They're about 32 volts, and I'm setting about 26 on the input.

MM: (29:03) In all fairness, without having the adjustable plate cell on here, it's still some things that we don't know. We still need to make the plate cell that's adjustable. We do know the dimensions of the plate cell. Yeah, it's all out there. And we need to make the adjustable plate cell and get it on this apparatus we could end it.

DG: (29:28) It's 3 by 12 inches exactly. It was a really thin piece of stainless steel wrapped around plexiglass, but it was 3 inches wide. Overlapped the size maybe a quarter inch or so, but the surface area for placing it was exactly 3 by 12. And they would go right into where it almost touched, but they wouldn't touch.

A: (29:49) Well, it makes sense that he would have something like that so that you can adjust it. He was trying to take apart cells and put them together.

DG: (29:55) Yeah, like I said, I think he used it strictly for finding the optimal spacing. The mechanical resonance. Yeah, well, that more or less, I think, just to see the effect on gap. That would be the easiest way to see what would be the best gap to start with. Now, like his resonance cell over there, he always talks about the patents are always like half-inch rod, 3.5. But in actuality, he ended up using 90 thousandths on the tube cell.

MM: (30:28) So let's just say there was a three inch gap between the plates. That would be dielectric between two plates, correct?

DG: (30:37) A lot of dielectric.

MM: (30:39) Yeah, that would be a huge dielectric. So if it could go three inches wide down to nothing, again, we still need to make it, see what it does.

A: (30:49) Let me ask you a question. This is kind of an important question, but I'm going to ask you to do a little experiment if you can. If you don't want to, that's perfectly fine. But if you dead short that cell, I'm talking take the positive and negative and throw a piece of wire, short it straight off. Right here.

DG: (31:12) I'm going to say there's a little bit of smoke. Yeah. Okay, well, just hold on. I'm trying to think. Okay. You're shorting across the chokes. Hold on.

A: (31:21) Just hold on. Let me ask you a question. How much did this cost you?

DG: (31:29) Oh, it's not that expensive. Those components there. The hardest thing to find is that SCR is pretty much obsolete. Okay. There's only a few dollars. If it shorts...

A: (31:40) I'll buy your components for you.

DG: (31:41) If anything, it might blow the fuse on the barrier.

A: (31:44) Okay, so could you dead short this?

DG: (31:47) Can we unhook the oscilloscope? Yeah, we could.

A: (31:51) I ain't buying an oscilloscope, so get that thing. I ain't buying an oscilloscope. That's $25 on eBay. I ain't buying an oscilloscope.

C: (32:00) That's two skids a lemon there, farmer.

DG: (32:06) How many avocados? we need a it's about a box I see we're going like 26 volts here okay something metallic to go across it yeah say it's protected for the just a nice I come prepared no big plastic I mean just just dead short that thing what do you think's supposed to happen we don't know this we're going to find out dead short hear the coil I have which one I heard this thing fire sound like pop fuse

A: (32:39) Let's see. How many amp fuses is that? 10. 10 amp fuse. That's fucking awesome, Don.

DG: (32:50) 10 amps. And what the cell's pulling. I usually, on my YouTube video, I had my meter hooked across there. But I didn't want to do it this time, not knowing how much current it was going to pull. But yeah, this is a 10-amp fuse.

A: (33:04) So hold on. This fed... We've got to get everybody on board here. Hold on, Max. I know this is your conference. Forgive me. So this fed all the way back through the chokes, all the way back through the diode, all the way back through all this stuff.

DG: (33:18) This stuff, I believe, is a 40-amp SCR.

A: (33:21) And it fed backward... Through the full bridge rectifier and beat blew the tenant fuse in the very act That's extremely important to know It's still not there Blue the fuse on a dead short that's very interesting because I One thing that Stan said was you could dead short the system and it would not, it wouldn't dead short.

DG: (33:58) Yeah, all it did was just pop my fuse.

A: (34:02) But he said it wouldn't dead short.

DG: (34:04) No, yeah. It's a damn right it's a key.

A: (34:09) So how much is that fuse?

DG: (34:12) You have to check for the CRT. Hold on, I got a quarter. I can tell you, that's the only one I probably had with me. Alright, look it.

A: (34:21) We got a donation here for your fuse. Order. Alright, good. We'll make sure that nobody goes away empty handed.

DG: (34:29) Yeah, that's hitting me off a couple and everything's probably not fun at all. So I guess that's pretty much all I got. There's a whole lot more story to stuff, but that's pretty much the crux of it. As I was just, like I said, I was just totally surprised that I was able to find the buggy. The biggest help in finding it was the article from the Columbus Dismatch. Dean Narcisco's talking about somebody south of Columbus, or south of Grove City. And I knew Charlie lived in Washington Port House. gotta be charming. So that's where I started. If I had done it like I wanted to originally, I probably would have found him in a couple weeks. But it was big help.

A: (35:19) Well, this is historic that you're even here. And you're able to tell everybody that you saw the buggy, you sat in the buggy, you touched all the stuff, and then you were able to replicate it to the best of your knowledge and make bubbles.

DG: (35:34) [24 seconds the recording does not carry: crosstalk and room noise over the demonstration.]

DG: (36:03) for everything that we documented on this.

A: (36:05) Now, so your coils that you have there, or you think those are a duplicate to the VICs?

DG: (36:09) Well, this one, I just threw this together last weekend so I could bring it here. And it's the exact same brand that Stan used because I'd seen this particular core but not knowing what the composition was. But I wound it as best I could to the specs I gave out and all this information.

A: (36:32) So you're telling me Radio Shack is still selling this course?

DG: (36:35) No, no. These were bought online through Magnetics, something Magnetics. I'm just messing around. It's real common. Radio Shack doesn't sell crap anymore. I had a question. Sure. if you were to explain the ebg the ebg your words how would you explain i would say if you could make the magnetic gas that thing would be the end of the world's problems for electricity but to start like i've told people we can't put the cart before the horse We have to get the resonance cell working. Without the resonance cell working, you cannot make the gas, because in order to make the gas, you have to run it through the resonance cavity, use the electron extraction process to remove electrons from the gas to unstable, unstabilize the gas, and then it's mixed with Well, you can't get it to work. Why? Because if you can't make the gas, you can't make it. So if the resonance cell works, you use voltage to dissociate the water molecule, you can then take and run the argon gas, whatever it is you want to use, strip the electrons from it, add the metal particles, make the gas lattice, put it in that thing, If the resonant cavity works, everything else will work, no doubt.

A: (38:07) Okay, hold on one second because that was a great question. So for the camera, state your name.

B: (38:15) Eric.

A: (38:15) Are you afraid to be here?

B: (38:17) No, I don't know.

A: (38:18) All right, good. Good question.

B: (38:21) Where are you from? Little Rock.

A: (38:23) Where?

B: (38:23) Little Rock, Arkansas. Little Rock, Arkansas? No, I don't know.

MM: (38:29) sure yeah Aaron right thank you that's a good question so magnetic gas is needed for the EPG right before we bother Don some more there is a video on my YouTube that shows you how to wind that coil and it's probably pretty close to accurate so it's easy to wind with tape basically so you can everybody can try it out the videos there It's free. Check it out.

A: (39:02) Oh yeah, I'm going to second that really quick here. That video that Max put up with taping the coil, that actually really works.

DG: (39:09) Yeah, I met the guy who actually wound that, went to Orion and Buck's a nickname. But he told me, he goes, he wound all those by hand. So he sat there by hand and wound every one of those coils around those EPGs. So I met the guy who actually wound the fourth.

A: (39:32) Does he have like a three-inch calluses on his fingers or what?

DG: (39:35) He was an overbelly. He actually bought a couple of dealerships at this time. So he was an investor. He'd seen the buggy running on tube cells and stuff like that. He'd never seen, he goes, oh, did you see the video with the dog chasing the car into the buggy down the street? That's on YouTube somewhere. There's a real short clip, maybe five, ten seconds. But he, I meant the guy that won those. And I did meet, they also, the Orion Project brought a fellow out that was working with Stephen Myers right up until Stan's death. And they were working on the steam resonator, the home heating system. And he says, we were almost there when Stan died. But he said he has a video of the EPG working. He said it was plugged into a board with all the light bulbs that everybody used. And as it got up to speed, he says, the lights would start coming on one at a time. And then when it was up to full speed, the whole board was lit up with like 1,000 watt balls.

A: (40:37) Can you please just stop and repeat that again?

DG: (40:44) Yeah, this fellow says he has a video of the EPG system. long board with conventional light bulbs, like 100 watt light bulbs, like 10 of them, in series, or in, I don't know if they're in series or parallel, but when you turned the thing on, as it got up to speed, the lights would come on one at a time until they were all on full brightness.

A: (41:08) Okay, one more time, the light bulbs would come on how?

DG: (41:12) One at a time.

A: (41:13) Until when?

DG: (41:14) Until they were full powered up and all the lights were on the same intensity.

DG: (41:18) [27 seconds the recording does not carry: crosstalk and room noise over the demonstration.]

DG: (41:49) that was his business. So he made all the circuitry standing, made these videos, sent them to Stan in the mail, Stan would watch them and call him back up and give him feedback. And that's how he did it.

MM: (42:02) So the other day I was watching Stan and Mara's videos again and again and again. He mentions in one of the videos that the multi-stack EPG, there was multiple EPGs, and I don't know, five, six, or six EPGs in a row, he says in a meeting with the military that his multi-stack EPG, roughly 18 inches in diameter, half the height of a water tank, which we have a picture of a multi-stack EPG, he said 300 amps output. That was his words. You play it over and over. He talks kind of quick. Has this funny Ohio accent. He says 300 amps out of that EPG. That's what the man said.

A: (42:57) Well, hold on one second. You're talking about EPG. We just happen to have a finished EPG here on the table. So what you're telling me is that... A multi-stack. But this one EPG, is this complete? The EPG itself is complete.

MM: (43:17) There's no gas in it.

A: (43:18) So we just need magnetic gas.

MM: (43:21) Correct.

A: (43:21) We need some fucking hillbilly to invent some magnetic gas.

MM: (43:24) Well, it could be some farmer from California, even. Or it could be anybody out there.

A: (43:34) Okay, so this... Did Russ Grease make that one? No, sir. Did Russ Grease make that one? You want to get thrown out? No, sir. No, this one was made by Max.

MM: (43:48) This is what it looks like without the coils. But I will have to say... Hey, is this mine? No, sir.

A: (43:57) Shit, I ordered it a long time ago.

C: (44:00) I will have to say... Put a deposit first. The partitions were made by Ronnie Walker of Kentucky.

A: (44:08) Congratulations, Ronnie.

MM: (44:10) And there is also names on the circuit board... Of the people that were part of my forum. Name them. All right. We got, I can't even pronounce that. Corey Golfox, Neil Ward, Dustin McCall, Arisa, me, of course, Hunter Hollingsworth, Adam Trina Wynn, forgive me if I didn't pronounce it right, Ronnie Walker, Matt Bearden.

A: (44:50) Okay, how many of these guys are here today?

MM: (44:53) Just me, buddy. No.

A: (44:55) Hunter's here.

MM: (44:56) Hunter.

C: (44:57) Oh, look at that. How old are you, Hunter? Twenty. Twenty years old. Hunter comes from Canada. Two, three years.

A: (45:05) Say hello. Hello. All right, so he gave up his college tuition to put money in that board.

DG: (45:09) Yeah.

MM: (45:11) [27 seconds the recording does not carry: crosstalk and room noise over the demonstration.]

C: (45:41) You're 20 years old, you're interested in getting the EPG working? That's right. How much money did you donate to get the EPG working?

B: (45:51) $1,000.

C: (45:53) $1,000, 20 years old. How did you get the money up?

DG: (46:01) I sold some shit.

C: (46:04) On eBay, right? Hey, thumbs up for Hunter. Thank you.

A: (46:12) You hold the mic. You talk.

MM: (46:15) Give it back to Dom.

A: (46:16) Now, I'm going to have a question for you. Why did you decide to go into EPG? What was your interest?

DG: (46:23) I thought it was a cool device. Thought it had some potential. Obviously, the magnetic gas would come first, though.

A: (46:31) How long did you study the EPG before you decided to get involved silently, gleaning on YouTube?

DG: (46:39) I just watched the video of Stanley Meyer and Ruth Patton. That's about it.

A: (46:44) So how many months was that?

DG: (46:47) Two, one, I don't know.

A: (46:48) And then you got a hold of Max?

DG: (46:50) Yeah, yeah, that's right.

A: (46:51) How long did you get a hold of Max before you decided to lay some money in his hand?

DG: (46:55) A year, maybe, is what I thought.

A: (46:58) All right, there's a vetting process there.

B: (47:00) Ask him why. Why? Why what? Why did you give up $1,000 and then make an ATV?

DG: (47:10) I thought it was a good investment. You think it'll work? Yeah, potentially. You're betting about a buck, aren't you? Yeah, that's right.

A: (47:21) All right, man.

DG: (47:22) Cool.

A: (47:23) Thank you.

DG: (47:23) What province are you from?

B: (47:27) I'm from Ontario, but I live in Quebec right now.

A: (47:39) Does anybody have any more questions for Don?

DG: (47:42) I do. I was wondering, I heard you earlier. State your name. Frank Sullivan. I heard you earlier. Did you say that you already made the circuit to identify and tune in on the frequency of water? Yeah, the tuning in to the frequency, it's it's going to be different for every cell every cell but it's a very simple process to tune into it was done just using this frequency generator which is a little more advanced than it stands but it does the exact same thing it's not hard to do but you have to have an oscilloscope to see the signal another option if you don't have an oscilloscope is just a small fluorescent bulb out of a kitchen sink light or something because as you mirror resonance You hold that bulb, either touching the water, and in my case, when I was running, I was winding coils trying to get the voltage higher and higher and higher. Tuning in the resonance is real easy to see on the scope. It just pops right in front of you. But I had a little flash of light. I'd seen somebody do it on YouTube. So I grab this bulb to bring over, and I touch the water. Sure enough, it lights up. And then once I get off of this high point of the resonant frequency, the voltage drops down. Basically, there's nothing there. So as you said, to hold that light bulb there, as you touch it on there and adjust the frequency, once it starts glowing and lighting up, you're reaching resonance. Is that because it's taking off the electrons? Yeah, because the fluorescent light bulb type bulbs, it takes a thousand volts or so, you know, to fully light one of those things. So it's just ionizing. So you just got to... Because what happened eventually was I kept touching the water. And before that, I was actually touching the water. I could touch the water and the signal would go pop. It disappeared. There was no current there. Zero. So as you're touching it, you're dead short of it. It just kills the signal on the scope. You can have a few hundred volts on there. Then eventually, I was reaching over one day to do something, and my wrist touched one of the wires from my clothes. They were just twisted together on my BIC clothes, and I felt a sting. That's all I poked the wire. It wasn't a poke. It was a shock. So I kept touching the wire with my wrist as I wound bigger and bigger coils, and it got to the point where I couldn't touch it anymore. So then one time I looked and, oh, what's the water looking? I touched the water and the signal drops, and I couldn't feel any power. Then I got up into, oh, 800 volt range plus, I measured. And same as always, I reached over, and it was making a few bubbles at that point. So I went over and touched that water, and it went bang. I mean, it about knocked me off my seat, and the hydrogen popped at the same time, so it made a hell of a bang and it shocked the shit out of me. Well, that was the highest bullet you've ever hit, but I was told it was the only time it did it. The first time I, you know, I just kept touching the water and it just shorted out, so I expected Very high potential across that water block. But back to the original story, the fluorescent bulb. So one time I'm looking, and I look away, and I go, and I had the bulb close to the cylinder. I went to plug it in, and I was holding it right, you know, a couple inches from the cylinder. It was lightening up. Well, it touched nothing. It just started lightening up. Then when you touched the water, it was almost full power.

A: (50:56) So at first, when touching the water, you had to have the positive and negative of the fluorescent bulb.

DG: (51:03) Just one end of the ball. You just touch the ball with the water one end. If you held your finger on the other end, you kind of grounded it, which would make it light up even better because you're grounded through you. But just hold the ball and touching the top of the water, it would start lighting. But if you held the prongs and touched it, it would not hook up to anything. And then the last time, you just hold it against the cell and it would come on without touching anything. Not touching the metal, just put the ball over there and it would start lighting up. like those Tesla scale wheels.

A: (51:32) Okay, so what you're saying is the scientific process is to stick your fingers in water or electricity. Yeah. Okay. I'm just checking.

DG: (51:41) But if you don't have an oscilloscope, and you've got a small 15-watt fluorescent light, just tape it to the side of the cell, and as you start tuning, if you get many bullets, that light will start glowing. You don't even have the wire in. If it don't glow, you're nowhere near. You're not close. Your coils are bad or something. Thank you. That was very easy to find. I got a video on YouTube showing you how to tune in the resonance. Now, it still only shows up as an AC sine wave. But at that point I had a problem with my circuit board here. The guy who built it, we used a MOSFET driver chip, and it required a 12 volt power, and he had it wired for 5 volts. So it wasn't triggering properly. It was making the signals and everything, but it wasn't putting any real current to the cell. So I was never really putting any high current. Less than a hundred million years of power is all it ever consumed. But I was having a problem with that circuit not working right. The other net, that's a real easy thing to do if you don't have the money for another little oscilloscope. This one here I picked up and you get it for like a hundred bucks. It works. If it's calibrated, I don't care. I'm just looking for signals. I'm not looking for anchors and numbers.

A: (52:56) Well, I'd like you to elaborate on the scope a little bit, and you kind of touched on it. What you're trying to say is even though the oscilloscope may not meet your scientific understanding or calibration to physics, or you may not be able to find these wave patterns in an electrical engineering physics book, you use the scope as a personal tool so you know where you're at.

DG: (53:23) right now without you know you can't see you know you can see gas production just show you have to see what's going on without it the best thing I say is just a little force of light that'll get you close if you're getting to the point where you're starting to make a few hundred volts or more that'll let you know you get to that sweet spot and it's a pretty broad spot too the voltage doesn't just go bang from zero to a thousand it'll you know as you're looking at those traces on the scope anything if you do what they call like a pain test you take a cell or any kind of electrical circuit you hit it with one pulse it's going to resonate it'll hit and then it'll ring it'll ring just like tapping a bell okay you'll see that single ring and then as you're tuning into resonance you'll see them pulses you'll see the pulse hit you'll see a ring and see the next pulse hit and it'll ring As you keep adjusting the frequency higher and higher, you'll notice those pulses come closer and closer and closer together, and those ripples, those ringing effects, will go from 4, 3, 2, and when you get to the 1, it just goes boom. And it's a pretty broad beat there. You're not going down to 1, 10,000ths of a hertz to find it.

A: (54:36) Okay, so what you're explaining, once again, is we touched on this earlier. The ringing effect is what's called the linear magneto effect. You can search it on YouTube. You can search it on Wikipedia, and you can get to understand that. When you hit... crystal lattice structure with an elect an EMF pulse you get the response back and that would be the linear magneto effect is that response and that's what you're seeing and stands trying to ask the natural resonance of the circuit in our case that's what the circuit will

DG: (55:09) Resonate at is that ripple if you can measure that rain on that one peak on pain or mobile pain? If you measure that time base with a scope without me You measure that you can automatically take a rate to that frequency You're pinging you're pinging the circuit within the capacitive living right you're pinging an LC circle, right and

MM: (55:33) Most of your newer oscilloscopes, like the one on top, all you had to do was ask the scope.

DG: (55:39) That's what I like about yours.

MM: (55:42) That's nice.

DG: (55:43) That comes with a price.

DG: (55:45) [27 seconds the recording does not carry: crosstalk and room noise over the demonstration.]

DG: (56:12) with the basic wire setup.

A: (56:14) For a Stan Meyer circuit?

DG: (56:15) Yeah, for his VIC coalesce package.

A: (56:18) See, that's important to know because when you're designing a circuit around that Hertz frequency, you can pick your components, your wire size, even if you don't have... Yeah, it's a very simple circuit to build.

DG: (56:28) Getting up into the gigahertz range is a very complex circuit to design. He always made it simple. Keep it simple, stupid. You get the frequencies, and he kept it in a real low-range frequency range so it was easy to build, and then every one of his systems used the exact same frequency range. No difference, they're all the same. Good to know. From start to finish.

A: (56:51) That's good to know because there's a lot of guys trying to build pulse width modulators in brute force electrolysis HHO, and they don't get over 10,000 Hz. Anything after that, the MOSFETs lock up.

DG: (57:01) Yeah. Well, this one here, this one's pretty good. I mean, this will go up to 4 MHz. It's a pretty good system.

A: (57:07) But it's a Stan Myers DIC type circuit. It's not a brute force pulse width modulator switch on MOSFET type circuit.

DG: (57:16) A big difference. It's based on MOSFETs. There's a whole art to picking MOSFETs. It's a very complex piece.

MM: (57:26) I actually think transistors work just fine.

DG: (57:29) That's all Stan gives. Tip 120.

MM: (57:31) Tip 120 from Radiojack. This is a transistor. It's actually a Darlington transit.

B: (57:40) Do fluoride boils have a change in efficiency more than a tube cell or a plate cell?

DG: (57:50) Torite coils are the best compared to these E-Cores, the EC52s or a U-Core, D-Core, whatever you want to call them. They're more efficient, but because they're Torrids, they're harder to wind, so the cost effect, they're just more expensive to run. I played around with a couple Torrids on Stan's original documentation claims that used that

DG: (58:16) [28 seconds the recording does not carry: crosstalk and room noise over the demonstration.]

DG: (58:45) I've never seen any of those in Stan's collection. I think there was some there, but I've never seen a coil in the picture that he actually used, other than just describing it.

MM: (58:55) It's my opinion that the black core for the VIC, when you put the two C-cores together, you have a square tarot.

DG: (59:02) Yeah, that's what all the cores are, closed circuit coils. What these ones that we try to use, these ferrite cores, you know, they're mostly flyback circuits for the gapping and stuff. From what I can tell on Stan's stuff, the way he had everything bolted down on those cards, he wasn't using any gaps. I think that little hole in the middle of those bobbing cores was verified with a cordal touch. That's my opinion.

A: (59:31) Okay. That's good to know. It's a big difference in design of circuit. The spark gap.

DG: (59:36) Yeah, it changes. It changes a lot. It changes the resonant frequency drastically.

DG: (59:40) [28 seconds the recording does not carry: crosstalk and room noise over the demonstration.]

DG: (60:10) which was a bi-filler wrap, but he was only using one side of the bi-filler. The big bobbin? No, no. In the center of these two little coils here was a feedback loop that went to the phase lock loop, 40-46. So it let you know where you're at. Yeah, that was to get the feedback so the system knew when resonance. I mean, if you're doing manual scanning, it's not really...

A: (60:34) So how does the system know resonance is achieved? Does it raise the voltage in the feedback coil?

DG: (60:39) Yeah, but it's a very, very low... Yeah, as you're near resonance, the system, that coil, will start generating the voltage. And the closer the resonance, the higher the voltage output. But it's a very, very low voltage going into the PLL.

A: (60:53) But similar to the light bulb test. Sure. And safer than the finger test. Yes.

MM: (60:58) That would be back to phase lock loop.

DG: (61:00) Yeah, the PLL. Right, that's the whole thing. But it's a very low voltage feedback. But in resonance, so if you have a peak voltage, once it scans, it's going to overshoot, scan back, and it's going to catch the peak point of voltage return.

MM: (61:17) I'm these party yeah last party we we actually have the the problems we have the bobbins for sale for I don't know what work on the box but I took the bobbins that we sell I took the bobbins that we sell for like a hundred bucks honestly we have long we're not we're not I'm not a rich man all the bobbin sales but I took it, I made molds, rubber molds of those bobbins, and I made this. All the bobbins you see here, they're made out of fiberglass resin like you'd fix your car. It cost me maybe five bucks worth of resin.

A: (62:00) So hillbillies in Bondo again?

MM: (62:02) Hey, real stuff.

A: (62:05) Yeah, sure. All right, we have a question.

MM: (62:10) You had mentioned earlier about the MOSFET locking up.

A: (62:13) You put too much back EMF and you'll smoke a MOSFET.

MM: (62:18) Really? MOSFETs are actually capacitor devices.

A: (62:24) All right. Let's come over here. Let's get a scientific definition on that.

MM: (62:28) MOSFETs actually function like a capacitor inside. The trigger is like a capacitor, so if you get too much feedback in the MOSFET, it will just jump.

DG: (62:39) The main thing of safety... He has a blocking diode for vacuum, and he has a freewheeling diode that goes around the primary side of the coil.

MM: (62:50) Without that, you will toast a MOSFET every time. MOSFETs are voltage potential devices, and they work off voltage, basically, like a capacitor. And then transistors are amperage devices that actually have a little bit of amperage drill for each transistor. And the TIP120 that Meyer used was actually a Darlington transistor. I'm not even going to describe it, just look it up.

A: (63:23) Would you say that a transistor is, a MOSFET is more modern than a transistor?

MM: (63:30) In my opinion, either one has its advantage over the other.

A: (63:34) But no modern.

MM: (63:36) MOSFETs are more modern.

DG: (63:37) MOSFETs will handle much higher frequencies.

A: (63:40) Okay, but the MOSFET came after the... Yeah, I think so. Okay.

MM: (63:46) I think MOSFETs in the high frequency, they get a little bit faster on and off.

A: (63:51) I'm loading a question here.

MM: (63:53) I'm sure you are.

A: (63:55) The MOSFET came after the transistor, correct?

MM: (64:00) Transistors were very old. The first one was made out of gold plate.

A: (64:05) All right, there was a statement by Stan...

MM: (64:08) The first one, Ed Jansen pointed out, they dropped the thing in water, and that's when it worked.

A: (64:15) Interesting.

MM: (64:15) Yeah, interesting. Gold leaf, dropped it in water, that's when it worked. Is that right, Ed?

B: (64:20) Yes, and it stands for metal oxide. It's rust, and it gives it a lot higher voltage amplification than metal oxide. You're a book radio. I use them as a front end for receiving the signal. Metal oxide is what MOS. Right.

MM: (64:37) Okay, hold on, hold on. On that point of metal oxide, check out the tube cell. Red, oxide.

A: (64:44) Metal. Okay, now, the question is important because in one of Stan's videos, he said that, quote, He's not sure that modern electronics can understand this energy. So if you have too much back EMF, you're going to smoke a MOSFET, but maybe not a transistor.

MM: (65:03) Well, a MOSFET would be a faster device so that back EMF, EMP pulses would destroy it.

A: (65:13) but a transistor is a sure is a year or two just hypothetically also so give me the damn microphone hypothetically is that a clue to saying all right we've got a circuit here it's got mosfets in it but we really want you to use a transistor Sam are definitely use the code to 120 which is a Darlington transistor Darlington transistors two transistors in one pack you know that

MM: (65:43) [16 seconds the recording does not carry: crosstalk and room noise over the demonstration.]

MM: (66:02) This is not exactly, but this is...

DG: (66:06) This is a Darlington transistor package here.

MM: (66:10) This is actually a Darlington transistor.

DG: (66:11) That's a tip 120.

MM: (66:12) Which is a Darlington transistor. And then these are kind of like a total pool driver for the Darlington. I actually, I use a total pool transistor bank to fire my MOSFETs. But the Darlington transistors, I just use transistors for the bar and the diode.

DG: (66:37) This is the flyback diode right here. This little diode going across the primary coil is what will save your transistors or your MOSFETs. That's what they refer to as a freewheeling diode or a flyback diode. Because when you pulse a coil, and when you shut off that pulse, that coil is still charged. It has to go somewhere, so it will go back through your circuit. put this freewheeling diode in here and then that voltage will circulate back around through the coil again and not feedback through the system causing feedback. It's called a flyback freewheeling diode.

A: (67:12) What frequency can you buy those at?

DG: (67:15) The diodes?

A: (67:16) Are they frequency dependent?

DG: (67:17) No, I don't think they're frequency based. They're basically voltage based and amp ratings. Sure. It's got an avalanche effect. Yeah, how quickly they can turn on.

MM: (67:37) Recovery time. You have a recovery time on a diode, so if you have a really fast frequency, you want to hide frequency recovery time. But the diode that Don is talking about was a 1N04. 4005. 4005. 4005. Less than an amp. Yeah, it's only like a 1 amp. It's a common common diode you can buy like 50 of them for a buck or something.

DG: (68:02) You can have a 1000 volt MOSFET out there without that diode you'll pop it.

MM: (68:06) I agree 100%.

A: (68:09) Alright do we have any more questions we can pry out of Don? What do you got? State your name.

DG: (68:19) Hello I'm Nate.

A: (68:21) Where you from Nate?

DG: (68:22) St. Louis, Missouri.

A: (68:23) You scared to be here?

DG: (68:24) I'm very proud to be here. I couldn't be anywhere else. What's your question? Don, I'd like to know, from a beginner's perspective, for people who are interested in learning this technology, what components should they learn first? As the Standbyer system is a series of components, what order should they learn them in? What would make sense in the ordering of learning?

A: (68:49) First, order a business. Get a job so you can pay for the stuff.

DG: (68:51) Yeah. Right? Not cheap. Not cheap. A lot of people want to dive right into the EPGs. Russ Greaves was one of them. He just wanted to dive into that. Or he wanted to jump into the resident cavity system. The biggest mistake I see the bulk of people doing is they're taking an 8XA circuit, putting it on a resident cell and trying to find residents. If you read through Stan's temporary patterns very highly confusing because he mixes all together because they basically all do the same thing and the biggest problem I see people doing is mixing one system with another thinking they can use this system on that system this with that another you cannot mix the systems together you'll never get it you'll never get anything to work properly so you got you either play with the 8x8 with a plate cell variable plate cell

DG: (69:52) [14 seconds the recording does not carry: crosstalk and room noise over the demonstration.]

DG: (70:11) if you don't understand how it works, you're not going to work like it. But it's not the Holy Grail of the systems. This is the Holy Grail right here. That's the resonant cell. This is what is supposed to be the gas. Stan claims that

DG: (70:27) [27 seconds the recording does not carry: crosstalk and room noise over the demonstration.]

MM: (70:55) and it really is basic circuitry.

DG: (70:58) It's the simplest and cheapest to start with.

MM: (71:00) But it is the secret to everything. And it is carried on throughout all of the stainless work. The same simple circuitry that anyone can work on.

DG: (71:11) The basic frequency generator will take you from start to finish.

A: (71:15) I'm going to touch on that subject for a minute. This is important. Come back in the camera. Repeat that again.

MM: (71:25) The 8XA, 9XB circuit is the exact circuit that is carried through all of Stan's work. It was minor changes, but that is the basic circuit that everyone can learn how to function and how it works to get them started on this.

A: (71:45) Now, you make the 8XA board, right?

MM: (71:48) Per Ritter in Denmark on the StanleyMeyerWebShop.com. His goal in life is for everyone to have that circuit fairly cheap. Cheaper than they can make it. If they want it, just the board. We can sell them just the board, cheap. We even have some seconds that didn't quite turn out right. This is a 9XB. This is a 9XB, which is the heart of the 8XA circuit.

DG: (72:20) The 8XA with a second generator. No, this is the one. Is that just one? Two.

A: (72:29) We're looking at a board here that's easily populateable. Let's put it the right way. The board is easily populateable. You can't really screw it up. It's got all the diodes and all the capacitors and all the stuff clearly marked. And how much is this board?

MM: (72:48) Think the board is like 20 or 30 bucks in itself and then the populated for this I Think pairs Adam down to 60 bucks before it's like 75 bucks for it all put together. Okay, bring that back It works if it doesn't work you you call me personally so that's that's 60 under $100

A: (73:10) under two hundred dollars you can replicate the circuit that is hundreds of thousands of hours of mine pulling out here

MM: (73:20) early in March for Stan Meyer for fucking 200 bucks yeah I'm surprised these things are flying off the shelf and and we also know what your credit card in the chat room will send you a pack oh the SCR board if you I come up with some similar components we also have the SCR board so with a diagram in the component values on the board

A: (73:47) [28 seconds the recording does not carry: crosstalk and room noise over the demonstration.]

A: (74:17) unbelievable so there you go you can do this you in this is when you want to get a little more energy want to put your chokes on there you want control a little bit better for how much I don't want okay let's say 20 30 bucks even less a bag of crack they're cheap right and so these things should be flying off the shelf you guys should be replicating stuff Don here prove that you can make bubbles

A: (74:47) [21 seconds the recording does not carry: crosstalk and room noise over the demonstration.]

DG: (75:15) [62 seconds the recording does not carry: crosstalk and room noise over the demonstration.]

B: (76:46) process.

A: (76:47) Okay, so what they're processing, what I'm saying here is that the 9XA and the SCR board, they're obtainable. $200, some wire, batteries, a little bit of time, and you can start replicating the stuff and proving that Stan Meyer's patents did exactly what they said. The bullshit out there that this stuff doesn't work as he said

MM: (77:17) [29 seconds the recording does not carry: crosstalk and room noise over the demonstration.]

DG: (77:47) nature gives everything for free. I know that much. It's priceless. So, there you go.

A: (77:59) Dawn's done. What are we doing next? Let's plug that back in.

DG: (78:04) Give Ed thanks.